Now good defensive hollow point is a different story. Indeed, if 9mm used the same grain of bullet, the ft/lb and velocities are near-identical. This is why officers typically carry as many shoulder weapons as possible in their cars. The 45 is the preferred for close combat, Common sense will tell you that if you are being overrun! I am aware of the ballistics of both rounds, and am a handloader. And while you might think that lethality by caliber is the main factor you should be looking for, the simple fact is that while a 22 rimfire is deadly, it is far from the best round for incapacitating an assailant in the here and now. If it doesnt get deleted for my impatience with thoughtless comments. The beautiful country in south east Asia. Blood poured out of his chest cavity, she wrote. Hunt! WebCapitola Mansion Apartments, Off Grid Cabin Canada, Seth Smith Actor Age, Parma High School Football Schedule, Roxiticus Country Club Membership Fees, Jquery Time Slot Booking Calendar, 45 Acp Damage Human Body, Maricopa News Shooting, Tws I12 Keeps Powering Off, Long Term Rentals Camber Sands, Wound-cavity analysis tells a similar story concerning the .380 ACP, with individuals shot by the round able to function seconds to minutes after being shot. Not aim shoot. The latest in 9mm bullet tech performs much better than in the past on windshields. Everything I understand and everything I have read and looked into if persons really going to throw down its going to be less than 15 yards and closer, at that point and Im just being honest I dont even use my rear sights once I get within 10 yards of a silhouette Im just going off at the front sight Focus and thats it, I compensate for the offset not using the rear sights by dropping the front sight a couple inches lower to anticipate the recoil and it is very accurate. My next handgun will be either a Ruger SR 1911 or a Kimber 1911 clone. Bottom line, if you come at me and I shoot you with my 9 mm or my 45, or my 380, its going to hurt like hell! They should provide officers who can control the larger weapons a choice about which pistol they are permitted to carry. The bullet had disintegrated his spleen and torn his aorta. I have not fired it yet but have dry fired it some to get back in tune. The answer is Yes. A 9mm round fired at close range to the skull with the correct ammunition will be fatal nearly all the time. Shot placement was nearly identical. .22lr is an assassins round yet we all have fun plinking around with it. I spend a great deal of time on the range. Its hard for Civilians to understand the firepower of the Military & Police, and what they can choose to bring to bear on their target, but we are responsible for each bullet fired, as Civilians! The 45s power and bullet size vs. the 9 mm Luger round was The double stack G19 is thicker. Muscle memory is great thing. Bob. Reality. So many guns so little time! Ive shot both calibers at humans as a soldier and as a LEO and 9mm just doesnt get the same results as 45 in the same number of shots. Source: Have you ever saw the wound track from a .230 hst. Avoid contact with other people's blood and body fluids. And no I have not tried it with Glock 19 I really dont like Glock it feels weird in my hand and does not perform anywhere close to my Kimber Colt 45 or my Walther Q4. Again this is my opinion and it is based on personal COMBAT EXPERIENCE. In the past, one of the standard tests performed to assess bullet and cartridge performance was the penetration of pine boards of various thicknesses. The FBI Training Division reported in May 2014 that officers, on average, strike an adversary with only 20 percent to 30 percent of the shots fired during a shooting incident. and manufacturers. But according to the FBI (First Bunch of Idiots) it isnt possible. Really lets cut to the chase. Experiences on the streets say otherwise. I notice one parameter that seems to be ignored. Prefer a 9 mm. Any gun between 9 mil and .45 caliber is fine if you can conceal it, and employ it quickly and with reasonable accuracy. Slow him down, double up, spin/alter his track-anything to allow you to get that second shot and the empty the clip. If it works for our troops no matter where it is made thats the one we want. Semiautomatic rifles dont shoot the largest bullets on the market. Our PD Captain has suggested that if I wish to carry, as a civilian, that I carry a .45 cal. Oh yeahMale mental dropped like a 50 pound bag of sand. He was a deputy sheriff. When i was in the military in the 60s we still were using hard ball ammo and the same still applied. Heres what they found it did to those enemies bodies, as republished in, Bullets can also increase the surface area that transfers energy to targets by expanding, as in the case of hollow-point rounds. When the .223 exits the barrel of a gun, it flies at more than 3,200 feet per second, and is still going 1,660 feet per second after traveling 500 yards. I would go with the 38 Super + P. Now you have something to rely on. In July, reports indicated that the top candidates in the final running for the new $17 million-dollar Modular Handgun System (MHS) contract to replace the current Beretta M9 included Glock's G17, the Sig Sauer P320, Smith & Wesson's M&P, and the new Beretta APX among others. The pool of cartridges in the study are grouped which makes the data integrity less reliable but each group of larger calibers exhibit significant percentage better lethality. The argument about effectiveness, capacity, reliability, stopping power, etc has been going on as long as I remember, ad nauseum. Give me a break!! So, as so many have said above, it depends on what you are comfortable with and what you plan to be doing with it. When someone has a weapon to defend themselves the adrenaline factor comes in play on both sides but the one with the tracing and experience should come out ok and most of the time the neighborhood thug doesnt have the training etc. 15 -25 yards lol I can hit you in between the eyes with my co2 bb pistol. As a medical provider who fractured his back, making a house call in Alaska-dealing with chronic pain issues-I have talk to our local Police Captain. After the FBI, he served as a Massachusetts Deputy Inspector Generaland is currently a deputy sheriff for Plymouth County, Massachusetts. I do not argue with this decision; however, I believe agents who can control the larger weapons/bullets without a problem should have the choice to carry weapons with the larger bullets. The human body experiences four main types of acid-based disorders: metabolic acidosis, metabolic alkalosis, respiratory acidosis, and respiratory alkalosis. The bullet has far less weight and cross section than a .45 acp? end of discussion. Even after suffering multiple 9mm gunshot wounds, victims are capable of fleeing considerable distances. Leave it to a bunch of idiot Marines to bring a pistol to a rifle fight. The last time such a broad survey of gun ownership in America was done, long arms ruled the day and Americans were largely interested in weapons for hunting and other sporting uses. S&W was required to announce it due to SEC requirements as they are one of the only publicly-owner companies. Most of the ballistic testing I have seen comparing the penetration of various bullets and calibers would suggest that generally, a .45ACP and 9mm are both quite comparable as far as penetration is concerned. But I do like Cor- Bon, and Glaser POWRBALL BY COR-BON. F = MA is absolutely true as it applies to ballistics. Its not our opinion that makes us right. Give SOCOM GLocks which shoot 9mm (Glocks are great guns and I dont have a problem with the 9mm, great cartridge especially with all the advancements over the last 30 years) as I was saying problem solved. Been involved in violent life or death confrontations for well over 40 years. It's estimated that chronic kidney disease affects about one in seven American adults. Very smart Chris ! However, the round stopped just short of entering Platts heart/aorta, only penetrating his torso about six or seven inches. At that long distance, the .223 will slam into its target with almost twice the speed of the .22. However, there are two factors virtually everyone agrees on: 1. If the technology got better for one caliber, it got better for all of them!! For those that think their their 45 is best, Ill shoot my 9mm and for those that think their 9mm is best, Ill shoot my 45. If I remember my undergraduate physics, acceleration is defined as a change in velocity or a change in vector. Ballistic gel is a joke and not a valid substitute for actual flesh and bone. Proper shot placement is the lamest argument based on logic. But you have not reached the mark to replace that recoil spring. Officially last year it was announced that DoD intends to move to hollowpoint ammunition with this new MHS gun (whichever one ends up winning the contract). Everywhere else, you have only a chance of incapacitating your target. During the shootout, Special Agent Jerry Dove fired a lightweight, high-velocity 9mm round that struck murder/armored car robbery suspect Michael Lee Platt in the upper right arm. I usually only post on the Reloading and Springfield portions of this forum, but I feel it needs to be stated of course that all the well educated and sincere folks who have posted actual facts regarding calibers and flung mass "shapes" are simply trying to destroy the internet and forums like these. If I ever have to use my firearm to defend myself or my family, I want all of the energy from that round to be expended in the target. Whatever happened to the body armor piercing 5.7 round- 20 in the mag, one in the pipe n if that aint enough, 30 round mag works great for me!!!! The penetration of various materials can be of great assistance in the investigation of shooting incidents. She said she shot him. Ben, enlightened folk like you (and myself) understand that politics is ALWAYS at play on some level!! He taught criminal law/procedure at the FBI Academy. The 45 ACP is my choice of a Heavy Hitter. What causes more damage, .45cal pistol or 5.56 mm rifle? 158 gr 0.38" Special plain lead bullet will only penetrate one side of a human skull. I own 9mm, .40 and .45. Anyone actually seen the effect of .45 jhp? | 1911Forum I meanwtf? 45 You can read all the FBI reports and all the ballistic gel crap you want. Even later to the conversation but figured Id throw my ring in the hate. 9mm Luger now offers select projectiles that are, under identical testing conditions, outperforming most premium line .40 S&W and .45 Auto projectiles tested by the FBI. People have lived through being nuclear bombed. I do like the capacity of the 9mm for in town carry and lighter weight than my Govt model 45s. There is little or no noticeable difference in wound tracks between 9mm Luger, .40 S&W and .45 Auto premium line rounds. NATO settled for the 9mm as a general service handgun cartridge after the war in part based on the testimony of a whole bunch of old SS guys whod served on the Russian Front. Another may be more easily rattled, where a head shot is possible but still iffy. Police, f.b.i., train. I carried a Colt 1911 while serving in Korea. But I agree, I would LOVE to see more true American companies represented!! For me I have a 9mm that is concealable as well as my AR15 223 and like some of the others on here I would rather us my 15. But this cartridge uses a half-grain bullet compared to 9mm. unless the guy is coming at you with body armor, if you have more than three bullets in your gun you dont really have a lot to worry about. 24 Round Magazine now only decreases reload time by 5% rather than 20% like before. and Privacy Policy. Wounding one enemy combatant to take three out of the fight (or at least two) was a good argument when we were facing civilized enemies such as the Germans in WW II. Vector I like my Colt GOV. THAT shot better make a change. Patricks treatise outlines the following factors to consider regarding handgun bullets: Accordingly, the best handgun rounds will reliably cause a permanent cavity that will penetrate the soft tissue of an adversary between 12 and 18 inches. In the technical language of ballistics engineers, the standard unit of measurement for a bullets mass is grains of metal, and depending on the manufacturer, a .7.62 can weigh in at 125 grains. U.S. Navy SeaBees m60 & 45 caliber was my issue. But I think the bigger point to be made is that it would not be wise to make a decision on a pistol or caliber simply because it is bigger, and therefore more manly. It should be made based on the merits and actual performance of the different calibers and/or pistols. 25 yard 1.52 off hand 5 rnd groups on the nose. The fifteen round magazine contributes to the spray and pray thinking while the 1911 makes one concentrate on placing the shot. .223 Rem in 5.56 NATO is OK. Because head shots are rare and extremely difficult, and torso hits are likewise difficult and do not result in immediate incapacitation, choosing handgun bullets for officers is a critically important task. I doubt a .45 would have allowed that.also know a guy who took 10 shots of 9mm at close range in a robbery and survived and is healthy and surfs, shooter must have had terrible aim. I recently bought a Sig P227 Tacops. If you shoot someone through the skull with a .22 rimfire and penetrate their brain, you will almost certainly immediately incapacitate them. And thats hardly re-enacting a self defense scenario. Hollow point bullets are superior to round-nosed ones. I am at a loss for words as I read the above two paragraphs like literally at a loss for words. That said a handgun is only used to get to a bigger firearm..it was never ment to be used in longer than 30 meter engagements. to stop the threat. I have a Glock19 and Glock23 chambered .40S&W and that is a great round to. Many years ago in auto racing, there was a saying regarding power. pulverizing bones, tearing blood vessels and liquefying organs. She remembered one young man who was admitted to her emergency room with an abdominal wound from a hollow-point round.